DAVID BIANCULLI, HOST:
That is FRESH AIR. We have yet one more in in the present day’s lineup of R&B, rockabilly, and rock ‘n’ roll interviews. A few of the best soul and rhythm and blues recordings would not have been made if not for Jerry Wexler. Wexler was a associate in Atlantic Information from the early Nineteen Fifties by means of the mid-Seventies. His specialty was discovering nice singers and matching them with the appropriate band and backup singers to create a sound that was each artistically true and commercially profitable. The brief record of individuals with whom he is labored consists of The Drifters, Ray Charles, Aretha Franklin, Bob Dylan, Wilson Pickett, Otis Redding and Solomon Burke. Terry spoke with Jerry Wexler reside from the Public Radio Convention in Washington, D.C., in 1993. He died in 2008 on the age of 91. Listed below are only a few of the data for which we have now Jerry Wexler to thank.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “I’VE BEEN LOVING YOU TOO LONG”)
OTIS REDDING: (Singing) I have been loving you too lengthy to cease now.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “WHAT I’D SAY”)
RAY CHARLES: (Singing) See the woman with the diamond ring? She is aware of find out how to shake that factor, all proper now, now, now. Hey, hey. Hey, hey.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “IN THE MIDNIGHT HOUR”)
WILSON PICKETT: (Singing) I am gonna wait until the midnight hour. That is when my love come tumbling down. I am gonna wait until the midnight hour, when there is not any one else round.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “UNDER THE BOARDWALK”)
THE DRIFTERS: (Singing) Underneath the boardwalk, out of the solar. Underneath the boardwalk, we’ll be having some enjoyable. Underneath the boardwalk, folks strolling above. Underneath the boardwalk, we’ll be making love. Underneath the boardwalk, boardwalk.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “RESPECT”)
ARETHA FRANKLIN: (Singing) Ooh. What you need, child, I obtained it. What you want, you realize I obtained it. All I am askin’ is for slightly respect while you come dwelling (just a bit bit). Hey child (just a bit bit) while you get dwelling, (Just a bit bit) mister (just a bit bit). I ain’t gonna do you incorrect whilst you’re gone.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR CONTENT)
TERRY GROSS: I need to get began together with your work with Aretha Franklin. I believe that is place to begin. Now, she had made about – oh, I do not know – 10 or so recordings on Columbia Information earlier than coming…
JERRY WEXLER: Sure.
GROSS: …To Atlantic. John Hammond produced her, and he was producing her like a jazz singer, sort of within the Dinah Washington custom.
WEXLER: Yeah.
GROSS: You – when she got here to Atlantic, you labored along with her. You heard one thing utterly totally different. What did you hear while you began producing her?
WEXLER: Effectively, I heard the Aretha Franklin who sang in church, who sang “Treasured Lord” when she was 13 years outdated. And a person within the viewers was so overcome he mentioned, pay attention at her. Pay attention at her. And I listened, and it wasn’t a lot that I attempted a brand new strategy to her. It is that what she did match very properly in with what we have been doing anyhow.
GROSS: Effectively, you sat her down on the piano.
WEXLER: Proper.
GROSS: You had her play herself, which I do not suppose she’d performed on the data earlier than that.
WEXLER: Not very a lot. Yeah.
GROSS: And you then took her right down to Muscle Shoals, to Alabama, to the identical place, really, that Arthur Alexander began earlier than he grew to become…
WEXLER: Precisely, and I would like you to know that I am not one of many individuals who did not pay him.
(LAUGHTER)
GROSS: What was it like at Muscle Shoals? What did you hear there in that Southern sound that you simply needed?
WEXLER: Effectively, it was the best way they recorded, which was ad-lib recording, with out written preparations – constructing the tune from the get-go, simply from the chords. And the musicians made a wonderful contribution. So these have been preparations which all of us did collectively. And so they have been simply as a lot preparations as something that was ever performed by Henry Mancini, within the sense of being an organized piece of music.
GROSS: So that you took Aretha right down to Muscle Shoals, recorded, like, a monitor and a half along with her, and there was this actually massive battle.
WEXLER: (Laughter).
GROSS: What was the battle about?
WEXLER: There was an explosion that went on due to an excessive amount of Jack Daniels and never sufficient prudence.
(LAUGHTER)
WEXLER: And it needed to do with Ted White, who was Aretha’s husband on the time, who obtained into harmful, over-friendly consuming from the identical jug with a gentleman who can finest be described as a card-carrying redneck trumpet participant. And it obtained into what we name the handfuls, the Southern dozens, after which it obtained nasty.
GROSS: (Laughter).
WEXLER: And the session blew up, and we went again to New York with one tune full, which was “I By no means Liked A Man.” And a three-piece monitor on the opposite aspect, which was “Do Proper Lady.” And all we had there was rhythm guitar, bass and drums, which isn’t an entire lot to go on (laughter).
GROSS: Not even vocal.
WEXLER: No vocal. No piano. No background vocal. After which we completed by bringing Aretha and her sisters into the studio. And it was a reasonably good piece of extemporization, in that beginning with this very minimal monitor, Aretha laid down an organ half and a piano half. After which she sang the lead, after which she and her sisters obtained collectively and did the background. And it was a really full, completed document put collectively, I might say, with spit and chewing gum.
GROSS: You produced “Respect.” Is there a narrative behind how the sock it to me’s landed on there?
WEXLER: Effectively, yeah, the story is that when Otis Redding did it, it was totally a special tune. The sock it to me’s have been Aretha Franklin’s concept the place she injected into the tune, which connoted a sure concept of social respect, most likely the notion of ethnic respect, mixed with slightly even handed lubricity on her half.
(LAUGHTER)
WEXLER: The respect that she was speaking about was what you would possibly name – very bluntly name correct sexual consideration.
(LAUGHTER)
WEXLER: However it was her transmutation of Otis Redding’s little Southern tune. As a matter of reality, I used to be mixing the document in our studio on Broadway, and Otis walked in. He mentioned, that little gal performed took my tune. However he meant that in a really kindly approach ‘trigger he noticed the money registers ringing.
(LAUGHTER)
GROSS: Now, your first studio was really the workplace…
WEXLER: That is proper.
GROSS: …Of Atlantic Information.
WEXLER: Proper.
GROSS: Who did you – ‘trigger when Atlantic was younger, you did not have a studio. So what’d you do? You’d transfer out the chairs into the hallway…
WEXLER: Effectively…
GROSS: …Everytime you need to document?
WEXLER: We did have a studio. It was our workplace, and it was a studio as a result of we had tools in it. And…
GROSS: Proper.
WEXLER: My associate Ahmet Ertegun and I shared this massive room. We had two desks that have been catty-corner, canted towards one another. And what we’d do is push them in opposition to the wall, stack them. After which our engineer Tom Dowd would set out camp chairs, just a few microphones and one mic within the corridor for echo.
GROSS: We’re simply going to regulate your mic slightly bit there.
WEXLER: Yeah.
GROSS: There’s a lot {that a} document producer is up in opposition to, typically the true sudden. And I believe an amazing instance of that’s while you have been producing The Drifters’ model of “Underneath The Boardwalk.”
WEXLER: All proper.
GROSS: Let’s begin with the start of that story. To start with, they did not need to even document the tune.
WEXLER: That is proper.
GROSS: You gave them an ultimatum.
WEXLER: Proper. I used to be not the road producer of that tune. I used to be appearing as a supervisor, you realize, as an govt of the corporate. And The Drifters have been at all times a priority of mine. And an amazing producer – deceased – Bert Berns, was producing the document, and neither he nor any of The Drifters may stand the tune. They only could not purchase it. And I did not need to intervene ‘trigger Bert was the producer however – this sounds, like, very self-congratulatory (laughter). And I mentioned, this tune needs to be performed. And I mentioned, you may choose all the remaining. I mentioned, or else ain’t no session. Yeah.
GROSS: Why’d you just like the tune a lot?
WEXLER: As a result of it seemed like a success.
GROSS: OK. Ok cause.
WEXLER: (Laughter).
GROSS: OK. So what occurred to the lead singer the evening earlier than…
WEXLER: Oh, yeah.
GROSS: …The session?
WEXLER: The lead singer on the time was a person named Rudy Lewis. You recognize, we had three incredible lead singers in The Drifters. The primary was Clyde McPhatter. The second was Rudy Lewis. His title isn’t as well-known, however he did some nice songs. And the third was Ben E. King, who’s having an amazing resurgence with “Stand By Me.” I imply, you may’t flip round with out listening to it anymore.
However Rudy Lewis, sadly, the evening earlier than the session was discovered lifeless within the resort room with a hypodermic needle in his arm. And the – I believe that was the – yeah, the evening earlier than the session. And we tried to name off the session, nevertheless it was an enormous date. And we had employed a variety of union musicians, and the union wasn’t chopping us any slack in any respect. They gave us 24 hours. So we moved the session forward yet one more day, however then we could not even change the charts. So we had to make use of Johnny Moore to sing the lead and with out even the important thing change, and he managed to sing it in the important thing that was put to him. And the attention-grabbing factor in regards to the document was we promoted all of it alongside the Jap Seaboard in Atlantic Metropolis and so forth. And it simply – it evokes summer season on a regular basis.
GROSS: And also you really did a variety of that your self, did not you? Packed up the automobile and drove round selling the document.
WEXLER: Oh, yeah.
GROSS: ‘Trigger you needed it to interrupt so dangerous. Yeah.
WEXLER: That is proper. And we did a variety of that in these days.
GROSS: Now, you labored with Otis Redding loads throughout…
WEXLER: Yeah.
GROSS: …His profession.
WEXLER: I used to be not Otis’ producer. I would like you to understand that. Otis was produced at Stax Information in Memphis by that nice crew who – Jim Stewart and Booker T. & the M.G.’s with – particularly Steve Cropper.
GROSS: Now, you noticed him change loads as he grew to become larger.
WEXLER: Oh, sure.
GROSS: Now, what was he like to start with earlier than he was very well-known? What was he like on stage?
WEXLER: Otis was quite simple, very unaffected, however he had the magic. And when he got here to New York after his first hit document, I picked him up on the airport. No roadies, no person, no nothing, simply sole Otis. And he opened on the Apollo, and he simply stood there, simply straight on together with his arms at his aspect, did not transfer. One other one who began like that was Marvin Gaye. However they discovered some stagecraft. However what actually kicked Otis into transferring was having to comply with Sam & Dave…
GROSS: (Laughter).
WEXLER: …Who was described as a stage filled with Jackie Wilsons.
(LAUGHTER)
GROSS: That is actually nice. No, you realize, we have been speaking earlier than the way you introduced Aretha Franklin right down to Muscle Shoals, Alabama. You introduced Wilson Pickett right down to Memphis to document.
WEXLER: Proper.
GROSS: You actually liked that Southern sound that was popping out of…
WEXLER: Proper.
GROSS: …A few of the bands there. Why’d you consider bringing him there?
WEXLER: Effectively, ‘trigger every thing was winding down in New York. I imply, it was entropy. We simply could not get out of our personal approach. We had been very profitable yr after yr. However our type of recording was a daily old-time customary type utilizing arrangers with written preparations. Now, when you need to change an association, and also you nearly at all times do to accommodate the vicissitudes of the tune and the place you are going, it is whole agony for the entrepreneur to see that clock going round…
GROSS: (Laughter).
WEXLER: …Whereas a person goes round with an eraser, erasing little notes on 13 charts.
(LAUGHTER)
WEXLER: And this Southern type of recording, the place it is simply – all you may have is chord indications. You exit. You sing a lick. Do it like this, fellas. Bang. This is the brand new chord, you realize. However perhaps that is overstating it. However really, there is a spontaneity and a incredible new factor that is available in as a result of the musicians are natural to the concept.
GROSS: So that you heard that it will work…
WEXLER: I heard the sound.
GROSS: …With Wilson Pickett.
WEXLER: I heard the sound, and I introduced Pickett to Memphis, and we minimize “Midnight Hour” and a variety of different issues there all in a rush. It was nice.
BIANCULLI: Jerry Wexler talking to Terry Gross in 1993 reside from the Public Radio Convention in Washington, D.C.
On Monday’s present, we conclude our archive collection R&B, rockabilly and early rock ‘n’ roll with Dion, who introduced his guitar and sang some songs. Additionally, songwriter, pianist, arranger and producer Allen Toussaint, who was on the piano for our 1988 interview and sang a few of his early songs, together with “Lipstick Traces.” I hope you may be a part of us.
(SOUNDBITE OF ALLEN TOUSSAINT’S “ROSETTA”)
BIANCULLI: FRESH AIR’s govt producer is Danny Miller. Sam Briger is our managing producer. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham, with further engineering assist by Joyce Lieberman, Julian Herzfeld and Diana Martinez.
(SOUNDBITE OF ALLEN TOUSSAINT’S “ROSETTA”)
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